His Majesty King Abdullah II’s interview with Brent Sadler on CNN
CNN: I'm Brent Sadler in Jordan's capital Amman, triple suicide bombers launched near-simultaneous attacks against three hotels in the capital Wednesday inflicting heavy loss of life. Al Qaeda's chief in Iraq the Jordanian born terrorist Abu Musab Al Zarqawi claims he ordered the strikes. Here to discuss the ramifications of those attacks both inside and outside his country, I am joined by King Abdullah of Jordan.
Your Majesty, how much of a threat does Zarqawi's network pose and do you intend to smash it?
King Abdullah: Well, Zarqawi's network, Al Qaeda, poses a threat to all of us in the international community and obviously Jordanians had suffered in the past two days because of the Al Qaeda threat. Obviously, we are going to crack down and take the fight to Zarqawi, but this is part of our coalition through the international community as countries that band together against this extremist threat.
CNN: After you visited the wounded in hospital you said "when Jordanians get mad they get even." How can you accomplish that?
King Abdullah: Well, we do have contacts internationally. I think that Jordan will look beyond its borders to assist in bringing these people to justice. But more importantly how you take these people down is ideologically. This is not a battle between a Jordanian-born or Jordan or different countries. This is an ideological struggle between extremist Muslims that have this perverse view of Islam against the rest of us moderate Muslims.
CNN: How do you take that kind of problem down as you put it? What's the way of undermining it and attacking it?
King Abdullah: What we have been doing in several years, and please one of the things that you have to understand is that the problems that we have had with Al Qaeda happened before 9/11 because the Hashemite kingdom of Jordan represents descendants of the prophet-- the moderate Islam. We have always been targeted. Myself. My family. Jordan was targeted before 9/11, before Afghanistan, before Iraq. And last year we launched what was called the Amman Message. Which was a direct offensive against these people to say that they have nothing to do with Islam.
CNN: So, do you welcome the outrage that followed the triple suicide bombings in the streets of Jordan? Could that in itself, that public shift perhaps in opinion, if there has in effect been one, against extremists who live and operate in your country, could undermine that?
King Abdullah: Every country I think that suffers from terrorist actions as we have suffered recently begins to understand how these extremists operate that they have nothing to do with religion. So yes the public outcry from north to south, Christians, Muslims, people of Jordanian origin, of Palestinian origin, have come together to I think rally against these people. This is something, I think, allows Jordan one-step forward in the battle against these extremists.
CNN: How much of a concern is it that Iraqi nationals seem to have carried out these attacks? You have a million Iraqis living in this country.
King Abdullah: Going back to Zarqawi, we have been very successful in taking down his operations in the past. He has been targeting Jordan for quite a while and we have been very successful on a fairly regular basis in being able to take his groups across because he has used Jordanians. Now he has changed tactics. He is using foreigners. That means that our security forces have to change tactics also. That does obviously bring the spotlight on the Iraqi community but I want to make sure that I know the overwhelming majority of Iraqis here are our brothers. They are very pleased to be here. This is something that we as Jordanians are extending to the Iraqis in their very difficult time, a safe haven from the difficulties that they are facing inside of Iraq. We have to strike that balance by rooting out potential threats to Jordan but in no way endangering the role of Iraqi society here in Jordan.
CNN: Historically, the kingdom has played a pivotal role in being a key ally of the United States. Now that role faces increasing Arab outrage, frustration on the streets towards US policy and the goal of stimulating democracy in this region.
King Abdullah: Well again, and I know you know this, and I know that if you talk about the issue of the peace process. The Palestinians know that their strongest ally and one that has used whatever capital that I have had with the West to be able to safeguard Palestinian aspirations and the future of the Palestinians or what we hope is a two-state solution. Similarly with Iraq, we all believe in the unity of Iraq. Jordan has gone out of its way to stand by Iraqis. And I just want to, I think, point out that the struggle that we have with Al Qaeda is not an issue of politics. It is not an issue of Jordanian policy. They are out to get everybody. More Muslims have lost their lives to these extremists than all other religions put together. This is a fight inside of Islam. If this was a fight against Jordanian policy, why go into a hotel and kill innocent woman and children going to a wedding? This is the type of people that we are dealing with. We all have, I guess you can say, our Timothy McVeighs. But this is a strike against the people of Jordan not the policies of Jordan.
Initially what Al Qaeda did was target non-Muslim countries to try and use that as the political cover. But at the end of the day the main target that they have is fellow Muslims, in other words, what they call takfir. The ability for them to call another Muslim an apostate: if you don't agree with me I have the right to kill you. Although I think that has changed inside of their mentality. I don't think that you can be a takfir if you don't go kill people. And this is what I think is dawning on the Muslim world that we cannot be complacent. We have to stand out and say enough is enough and this is why we started the ‘Amman Message.' Now where other countries and other religions can help us is don't let the terrorists or the extremists on either side put us against each other. There is too much of, in discussion of, we are saying that they as opposed us. If we can break down those barriers and make sure common humanity is the common bond between us. Then we will be able to overcome these evil perpetrators.
CNN: Let’s talk about other countries. Is it possible that the bombers went through Syria which the US accuses of being a transit point for insurgent activity, came into Jordan detonated those bombs and is Syria doing enough to fight the war on terror?
King Abdullah: It is a possibility. We have some leads and obviously we are pretty sure that the four suicide bombers are foreigners. Information, if you listen to what Zarqawi says and our initial findings are Iraqis. So there are only two logistical places that they could have come across: either the Iraqi or the Syrian border. We have had discussions with the Syrian authorities for several years. I have personally talked to the President on issues of terrorist organisations that have come across the Jordanian border, that have been creating instability here. He has assured me on many occasions that he will take this up and give it his utmost attention and I hope that he will continue to do that.
CNN: But have promises been followed up by deeds?
King Abdullah: Well we still have had problems across our borders.
CNN: Let’s turn our attention to the peace process, which is of course on the sidelines as it were, overshadowed by the war on terror. How much of an impact do you think the peace process could have positively on reducing extremism, if there could be some further progress development in that area?
King Abdullah: Well I think that what you said lastly- there has to be progress to give hope. Where the extremists, I think, gain ground is when there is frustration. What happened recently, the pullout of Gaza, I think was a very courageous decision that both the Israelis and Palestinians need to capitalise on. It is a chapter of hope for all of us in the region that Israelis and Palestinians can move forward. We just need to keep the momentum going. When the momentum stalls that is when the extremists get the upper hand, and that is when they use frustration to increase terrorist activities against all of us.
CNN: Now Zarqawi has effectively declared war on Jordan. And there does seem to be a degree of personal vengeance here against the Hashemite Kingdom
King Abdullah: You touched on one very important issue: the Hashemite Kingdom. Because we are the descendants of the Prophet, because we have the legitimacy to take on these extremists through Islam, I think that is where it gets personal. Because it is the ideological boundaries that have been drawn between, I think, the overwhelming majorities of moderate Muslims and these extremists that have nothing to do with Islam. And they know that we can call them out on this and I think this is where it starts to get personal. Because they run out of the arguments to be able to use whatever rhetoric and whatever propaganda they have against Jordan or any other Muslim country in this world.
And for Zarqawi to say that this is an attack against the Jordanian regime. It is not. This is the excuses that Al Qaeda have used against regimes but at the end of the day, I think, if I can be truly honest, these takfiris, all they want to do is kill fellow Muslims. I think that to walk into a lobby of a hotel, to see a wedding procession, and to take your wife or your spouse with you into that wedding and blow yourself up…these people are insane.
CNN: Your initiative to try to win the battle within Islam. What happens if that fails?
King Abdullah: I think it is a failure beyond the borders of Islam. It is a challenge that many other religions will have to face and if these extremists continue the way they have been doing, we all pay the price. These people have perpetrated horrendous crimes from Bali on one side of the world to the United States on the other. Arab, Muslim, western, eastern nations have all suffered from this. So it is a challenge that we Muslims are taking very seriously and is one we are continuing to fight. But we need to do it together. Muslims, Christians, Jews, Buddhists - all of us need to come together and stand up against extremism.
CNN: Your Majesty, thank you very much indeed for joining us today.
