Interview with His Majesty King Abdullah II
“During the war, they asked me to talk, to give interviews, and I refused because I didn't know what to say. I felt tired, and above all, depressed after all the efforts deployed to avert the war, whether with the Iraqis or with the Americans. It seemed to me like I was helplessly sitting and observing two trains travelling at a mad speed, one facing the other. Now the war is over, even though there is a need to work hard to win the most difficult battle, the one of peace. However, I regained the desire to act and talk; it is a very delicate moment, but the determination is still present and the feeling of depression has vanished.”
In his first interview on this crisis with a big European newspaper, King Abdullah received the reporter of Corriere della Sera in the private residence of the Royal Family, on the hill of Al Baraka. He was wearing simple clothes - dark trousers and a shirt. He was in the best mood; he has just celebrated the birthday of his sister (which falls on Wednesday) and that of his mother, which is today. The young monarch has returned to his usual self - strong willed and endowed with a sense of humour. I drew his attention to the three official photographs, with dedications, exhibited in a corner of the sitting room. They are the photographs of the Monarch with (former United States President Bill) Clinton and (President George W.) Bush; but, in the middle, there is (the photograph of French President Jacques) Chirac. Is it an intended arrangement? King Abdullah smiles “I didn't notice.”
Corriere della Sera: Your Majesty, you tried with all means to avoid the war. We have heard a lot about your concerted attempts (which went unheeded) to convince President Bush of the gravity of the risks involved in a conflict, and above all, the consequences of such action. But, what happened with the Iraqis?
King Abdullah: Both Vice Presidents, Taha Yasin Ramdan and Izzat Ibrahim, came to Jordan. They asked what should Iraq do to avert a war. I replied and listed the conditions that, in my opinion, they needed to meet and fulfil. They listened to me with attention. Then, they said: 'We cannot submit that to Saddam Hussein. It is out of discussion.” I responded: “So, why did you come here asking for my opinion?” At that point, I realised that there was nothing left to do. I felt frustrated and unable to do anything to change the course of events.
Corriere della Sera: The war is over, but how can we win the battle for peace?
King Abdullah: There are three elements that I tried to explain to the people: 1) The coalition said they wanted to rebuild Iraq for the Iraqis. They said they wanted to work with the international community and, in certain measures, with the UN. Unfortunately, because of what is happening on the ground, I believe much more time is needed than the expected. 2) There is General Garner and his administration. We ask how they can help Iraq effectively. We don't know what their plan is. I believe that it is important to have a national umbrella, because if administrations are firmly established in northern, central and southern Iraq, by doing so you will be creating the cantonisation of the country. We already see, in the Shiite south, a conflict of power. 3) Under a national umbrella, you need to help the Iraqis prepare a constitution. I am concerned that the coalition will give the Iraqis a western-type constitution. This is wrong. The problem is to try to strike a balance, because if you commit a mistake in the first step, it will take months or years to repair the damage.
Corriere della Sera: You told Dan Rather of CBS that, in Iraq of the future, the most important part is that of the Iraqis, who live in the country, not those who left the country, i.e., the opposition.
King Abdullah: Look, there are members of the opposition, who left Iraq recently and some of them are very qualified. But they are small in number; that is why I think they can have a small role. And if I were an Iraqi who thinks of the future of his country, and who has suffered for decades under an oppressive regime, I will identify much more with someone who has suffered like me, rather than someone who has lived in London for thirty years. Even if I am convinced that the opposition can play a role, I think that this role is, realistically, a minor one. And then there are many Iraqis in the country who are talented.
Corriere della Sera: So you don't see a big role for Ahmed Chalabi.
King Abdullah: Chalabi has charges against him in Jordan, Lebanon and Geneva. So, he has a lot of problems to solve. I believe that the rule of law is very important. Now if Chalabi becomes a leader, he should solve his problems in accordance with regulations governing relations between a state and another, not in his personal capacity.
Corriere della Sera: What would happen if the US stays in Iraq for a long time and creates permanent military bases?
King Abdullah: A lot of Arabs say: Okay, you Americans say that you have come to liberate the Iraqis of an oppressive regime and supposedly we are convinced of your good intentions. So, liberate also the Palestinians of oppression. If you show that there is no clear future for the Iraqis, if you don't show a clear determination to solve the Palestinian problem, and all that you think about is oil and creating military bases, the people will be suspicious and feel they have been betrayed. And they will think, today Iraq, tomorrow Syria, after tomorrow Iran. I don't believe that it is true, but this will be the perception of the public. The US has to clarify its position. Iraq today is at the centre of all attention, but in our minds the main problem is that of Palestine.
Corriere della Sera: You said that there might be room for familiar faces at the helm in Iraq. Do you have anyone in mind?
King Abdullah: No, I said that they can find remarkable people in Iraq. Hopefully a general, or someone who served in the previous government without having had their hands in blood. I don't have names in mind, but if you search, you will definitely find people.
Corriere della Sera: What would happen if Iraq breaks? Who will come to intervene?
King Abdullah: Turkey and Iran would intervene immediately, along with other Arab countries. The delicate relations between the Kurds and Turkey, the Iranians and Iraqis from the south, are very well-known. I must say that during all crises, Iran has kept a calm attitude. In this point, I am optimistic.
Corriere della Sera: But millions of Iraqi Shiites have gathered in Karbala. Don't you think that a strong Islamic movement was born?
King Abdullah: No, I rather think of a struggle of power in southern Iraq. If we don't recalculate, the struggle could get out of hand, out of control. If I were in the coalition's shoes, I would be very worried.
Corriere della Sera: What do you think of the US threats to Syria? Some believe that these threats are a curtain of smoke concealing other intentions.
King Abdullah: No, I believe that the threats on Syria are serious. But I don't believe that, in any chance, it would lead to a conflict. There is the problem of banned weapons and that of the terrorist organisations operating in Syria. These are not very serious problems that would provoke a military conflict.
Corriere della Sera: You told me more than once that you harbour great admiration for President Bashar Assad. Do you still feel that?
King Abdullah: ‘I've always respected and admired Bashar. My worry is regarding those around him.
Corriere della Sera: So you don't think that Syria will be the next on the list?
King Abdullah: No, I repeat it. I don't want to bet, but I will be shocked and extremely surprised if it happens.
Corriere della Sera: The US says it wants to bring democracy into the region. But how will this democracy work?
King Abdullah: It depends on the type of democracy. If they really want a liberal future for Iraq, it will reflect positively on all. There is a need for liberal and democratic reforms. We in Jordan are now preparing for the elections, scheduled for June 17. I wanted the voting to be electronic around the country, and now we are ready.
Corriere della Sera: Some express the belief that certain fears are behind the two postponements.
King Abdullah: No, I wanted the first elections during my reign to be absolutely transparent. The first postponement, as I said, was to prepare for the electronic voting, the second was due to the Israeli incursions into the West Bank. Now there will be no more postponements. We are also the only country in the region that replaced the ministry of information with a higher media council.
Corriere della Sera: Your Majesty, let us talk about the Palestinian situation. Do you think that the roadmap will work?
King Abdullah: Yes. I know that President Bush and Prime Minister Blair are seriously committed to supporting it. The problem is technical: Creating a Palestinian government, which seems to be under formation. Otherwise, a lot of time will be wasted and the roadmap will not be launched. It will be very harmful for the Palestinian cause.”
Corriere della Sera: Do you believe that Saddam is dead or alive?
King Abdullah: I don't have the slightest idea. Some reports say that he was seriously injured during the first day of the war, other reports talk about his death during the bombardment of Al Mansour area, others say he is still alive and is going around Baghdad. It is really strange that there are no responses from the coalition. Not even queries.
Corriere della Sera: Also, what about the weapons of mass destruction, which have never been found.
King Abdullah: I believe that these weapons do exist. My instinct tells me so. I think that they were hidden and it is difficult to find them. There is a need for somebody from the regime to come and say: Here they are, look down there.
